Editor’s Note: Dan Gable became a legendary figure as both a college wrestler at Iowa State, a 1972 Olympic gold medalist in freestyle and a long-time successful coach at Iowa and with the United States World and Olympic teams.  He spoke recently with WIN editor Mike Finn following the recent World Team Trials in Council Bluffs, Iowa.

            WIN: USA Wrestling announced at the World Trials that they are increasing the amount of money a wrestler can earn at either the Worlds or Olympics. Was that necessary?

            Gable: It’s a good thing. When I wrestled in the Olympics, I actually had to pay back some money that I earned at a clinic prior to the Olympics. We didn’t get anything by winning a gold medal. It did open a lot of doors and you could take it a long way as long as you continued to use the traits that got you there.

            The additional money will put an edge on people and keep them around longer. When the going gets real tough, they will have a little bit of an edge that they didn’t have before. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. If it’s the one thing that you are doing this for, it’s going to be short-lived because I don’t think you will be able to get out of your system if you are only money driven the satisfaction you need to be able to compete and prepare to win. Talent is good but you also have to have that work ethic.

            Only time will tell what it does. But I think it is appropriate that we have this opportunity because of Mixed Martial Arts and guys are looking at that avenue. With the money, they would jump to the MMA. This gives us a chance to realistically say we can compete with some money out there.

            I always knew that the Olympics were much bigger than the Worlds in perception, but five times bigger? It’s really the same event.

            WIN: Past U.S. wrestlers, like the World and Olympic teams in the late 1980s enjoyed competing. Zeke Jones has said he wants guys who want to wrestle and have pride in wrestling.

            Gable: I don’t know why it doesn’t exist. People are different. It’s a different society. There are other things out there you move on to. A lot of it is financial-based. Look at the (Cael) Sanderson move (to coach at Penn State). I’m a little too-much old school. You have to flow with the times somewhat as long as it is good.

            The key to me is where is the money coming from and can we sustain that money for a long period of time. We need that commitment of consistency forever now.

            WIN: How do you make a wrestler like Henry Cejudo want to continue?

            Gable: It has to do with the program, the organization and the coaches. That’s what good programs and coaches do. The one thing I took pride in coaching is that a lot of my wrestlers made it their profession. When you stay in it for a lifetime or as your business, then chances are you liked what you did. And it means you did something right with those people, who are going to do something similar with their people.

            WIN: Does USA Wrestling need to create a framework where wrestlers are excited to be involved on the Senior level?

            Gable: Yes. I’ve heard USA Wrestling say this is not their area or we don’t have any power so we’ll adapt. I don’t agree with that because I think it is up to USA Wrestling. If they are going sustain something for a long period of time and create that excitement, then they have to worry about the product. I’ve heard USA Wrestling say they only have so much influence over the product. USA Wrestling has to think that if something below them is failing and not creating excitement, it’s going to hurt them.

            WIN: How good is the product of wrestling on the Senior level? On a scale of 1-10 (ten being the highest), where would you rate it?

            Gable: I don’t rate it very high. I would say a four.

            WIN: Why is it below average? Is it because of the rules?

            Gable: Yes. People adapt to rules and they will wrestle to the rules … and the rules determine the excitement. USA Wrestling should always work with FILA on improving the rules. A lot of times, their hands are tied, but sometimes they have to pull a Houdini. There is more to it than what is there.

            There are things that are simple to watch and understand why someone is scoring points. Right now, that is not the case. I think there is a lot of uncertainty on rules. I can’t tell you what is the ruling on the edge of the mat. Even if I did understand, it might change tomorrow.

            Also when someone steps out, it’s sometimes easy to see who steps out but then you are stopping action, which is sometimes the best action. You almost have to have one referee watching the step out. It goes against the what the people in the stands understand as what makes points.

            You should never stop action and there’s not that much action now because of what the rules are. There is no mat wrestling and their should be. Plain, flat-out, there should be mat wrestling. Don’t tell me there shouldn’t be. There is an infinity of holds from the top guy but FILA’s philosophy now is they don’t believe in mat wrestling and they’ve taken away 40 percent of the wrestling.

            Philosophically, it’s hard not to fall in the rules because the periods go so quick. If the other guy scores a point, do you have enough time to catch up? There are a lot of things that have to be looked at.

            WIN: You talk about rules being open to interpretation. Is that causing chaos between the officials and the coaches, who challenge so many calls?

            Gable: It should be pretty clear cut. Right now it is a tough sport to referee.

            WIN: Do traditional folkstyle fans have a hard time understand how today’s freestyle rules work and therefore don’t even want to waste their time watching the Trials?

            Gable: I don’t understand and I don’t want to go as much, especially if I don’t have a personal interest in a match.

            The one good think about today’s rules, if you are involved emotionally, it can be very nerve wracking because of not knowing how the points are going to be scored. Anytime a wrestler gets toward the edge of the mat, you hold your breath.

            I think you should go with action and have the incentive to score. Matches should not be one-point matches.

            WIN: Is there any way that Americans can FILA rules and adapt a style to it? For example, then you coached at Iowa, you would take the rules but force your action.

            Gable: If anyone is going to do something that is above and beyond what’s extraordinary and a little more difficult, it will be the Americans. We could take advantage of these rules but there are those whose specialty is adapting to what the rules are.

            Americans have the mentality, more than Europeans, to take the rules and change what you strategically do in a match

But at the extent of making mistakes, it’s not for everyone. If you have an example, that’s good. Usually, Americans are able to take that to the extreme. Unfortunately, I don’t see a lot of that.

            The problem is that there are swings that when an athlete makes a mistake and give a period up. They change their attitude about the match for about a minute

            From a coaching point of view, the more high and low you get, the more vulnerable you are.  I see that often with a lot of guys.

            I never wanted to give up a point. Many of today’s wrestlers will give up a period.             You have to be more adaptable to these rules if you are going to be that type of wrestler. If I lost a point, I’d be thinking about it and it would affect me in another period. Some wrestlers have that problem.

            WIN: No one likes the leg clinch to determine overtimes. But yet it appears that some wrestlers are waiting for the opportunity to get the clinch.

            Gable: FILA created the leg clinch because they don’t want you to go to it because it is not dependent on you. It’s dependent on the flip of a coin or the color of a ball. What they are saying if wrestlers are willing to wait for the ball pull, then they want the wrestler with the offensive advantage to win. FILA is trying to tell wrestlers that they should be trying to determine periods in regulation. Unfortunately, that is not human nature. It’s a nice idea but doesn’t get implemented very much.

            WIN: A guy like Dustin Schlatter takes a year off from college wrestling because he is so beat up. Then he wrestles freestyle, something he had not done for four years, and makes the World Team. Are we burning out some of our college wrestlers that as they progress in their college careers, they are actually getting weaker?

            Gable: I think it depends on two things. It depends on the athlete who came to you. He might have come from a pressure-packed situation. And it depends on the what system he gets into. That’s where you look at where this kid has been and how he is holding up. That’s part of coaching.

            There is an opportunity to beat kids up and allow them to get burned out. It’s up to the coach and the athlete to make sure that doesn’t happen.

            WIN: Who has more responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen?

            Gable: As a wrestler gets older, the wrestler should be. When a wrestler is young, the coach does. I use the word, “independence” a lot. Wrestlers should develop independence but they still need guidance. I don’t know how many kids get to that point. They should not need to be controlled as much. They should know what to do.  Also a situation like Schlatter, who adapted to the FILA rules, he won’t get beat up as much with these rules.

            WIN: Is there more pressure on college wrestlers to compete now?

            Gable: Anytime you start talking about money and issues with money, there is gong to be more pressure. A lot of it depends on timing, the success you had, where you’re at. I just think there is more information out there and because of that it’s misinformation.

            Misinformation leads to less unity within our whole system. It’s the way society works.

            It’s also not just winning now. There is more emphasis on academics now and who your kids are and are they productive. Everything is watched easier now and the standards are higher.