Editor’s Note: Mike Finn spoke to Missouri head coach Brian Smith on Dec. 19, shortly after his Tigers won the Las Vegas Invitational and rated No. 1 by Intermat. Since 1998, Smith has resurrected a program that was a doormat in the Big 12 and has since produced its first national champion in 2006 Hodge Trophy winner Ben Askren. Now, his team goal is to win an NCAA title, a big goal considering the Tigers’ highest finish ever has been 11th.

Q Your team is ranked No. 1 in the coaches’ poll and No. 2 by W.I.N. What has been the reaction in the Tiger community?
A It’s a very excited state. We have the No. 1 journalism school in the country here and there are a lot of journalism graduates out there from Missouri. So it’s big news to them. Then if you look at the athletic department, it’s the first team to be ranked No. 1 since 1989 so everyone in the community is excited about it. I think our team has stayed even keel. They say it’s nice, but it’s December.

Q Many people are looking at this as a “surprise” story. Do you look at it as a surprise story?
A Not really. Our goal at the beginning of the season was to win a national title as a team. At this point of the season, a poll has us ranked No. 1, but we also know that it’s at the end of the season that matters. It’s good for attention and it’s going to draw bigger crowds. Sometimes our programs get over-shadowed by big-time basketball and our football team is going to a bowl game. Yet, we’re making front-page news. We’re going to draw crowds from those who normally do not go to our matches. That’s the positive. The rest of the community is surprised by it because no team here, in any sport, has been ranked No. 1 (at the end of the year) here. To us, it’s our goal and we started off third so it’s not like we jumped up that far. It is amazing when you go from No. 2 to No. 1. It really changed the perspective of the community. That’s society, which wants to be part of the person or team that is on top.

Q Has there been anything that has surprised you?
A Not really. They have been pretty focused since the week after last year’s nationals. They have been close and working together and doing things. They are having meeting and doing stuff together all the time. They really want to make something happen this year. That’s what is nice because I won’t lie to you; I was nervous about the No. 1 ranking because of the bull’s eye that gets put on your chest. They are excited about it but not that crazy about it. They are seeing more things being written, but they just thing we’ve got Pittsburgh next. Let’s be focused on that.

Q There is a big difference between a No. 1 regular-season ranking and post-season success. In 2004, your team was No. 2, but finished 11th. What did you learn from that year? What does it take to also have success in the post-season?
A You have to have more people place in the national tournament. Every year we’ve improved in that in getting more All-Americans and last year we had our first national champ (Ben Askren). We keep overcoming new obstacles and things; getting that national title last year with Ben just sent a message to the team that we’ve had a bunch of All-Americans. We’ve done everything else, including beating every team in the Big 12, we’ve won major tournaments like Vegas. We were in the finals of the National Duals. Now it’s time to do something at the NCAA tournament. Even after Vegas, we sat down and talked as a team and a lot of guys said I didn’t have a good tournament even after we had eight guys place and the most we ever had before was four. They all know the nationals are going to be tougher. That’s a good way to approach it.

Q How will you work with them individually about placing and staying injury free?
A Every year, you have to look back at every season and say, ‘How can we get better?’ Every coach should be improving every year. If not, then you get stale and don’t improve. We are keeping some guys out of the lineup because we have some depth and don’t wrestle everyone every match. We are giving some young kids some opportunities and staying focused on the end of the year and not making a big deal of things. I think early on in our program when we got those big wins, it was, ‘Wow, we beat Oklahoma State’ and maybe the success got to the program too quick. Now we are even-keeled and focused and worrying about the job at hand.

Q How do you avoid from looking ahead to March?
A Every event we go into now is tough. Right after the Scuffle, we will peak the team for the National Duals and see how they are feeling there. Then we have our conference duals, which are important for the seedings at the Big 12s and nationals. It shows how important every match is until the end of the year. If you have a bad stretch, it can cost you seeding-wise. We want as many guys seeded in the No. 4 so that they don’t see seeded wrestlers for a couple rounds and we can score bonus points,which is important for the nationals.
That’s another thing we’ve stressed this year. We want them to be aggressive and go after bonus points by putting people on their backs. If you look at our dual scores, we are averaging about 30 points against some solid teams. The same thing happened at Vegas, where we had in the upper 40 of bonus points. We scored a lot of falls there and a lot of techs and majors. They know we didn’t score as many bonus points as we could have last year. It affected us.

Q Look outside your program. Can this be duplicated elsewhere and what variables need to be in place for that to happen?
A You have to have a vision and a plan. Then you have to surround yourself with very loyal and hard-working people. Then you have to change attitudes in the program to believe that you can achieve at the highest level. I got laughed at in my first (media) interview. I talked to a couple reporters at my first interview when I showed up on campus and said, “I want to challenge for Big 12 titles and have a chance to win national titles. That’s why I’m coaching.” They were looking at me, saying this guy is crazy. I’m was 32 years old and they are thinking, ‘Does he know about Oklahoma State and all the teams in the conference.’ After my first week at the job, people were faxing in things saying that I should be fired.
The reporter followed up the report and found out it was some kids on the team. They just thought I was the no-name. I had not been an Olympian or national champion. Why is this guy taking over? Are they are thinking about dropping the program? I had to get people to believe in the program so you start with a small nucleus and get people behind you. I’ve received a few e-mails from a few of the alums who stepped right up and said, ‘I want to help Brian.’ One of them sent me a message saying, ‘I was one of the 50 who were there at the beginning,’ meaning that we only had 50 people at our first meet.
If it’s only 50 people who believe in your program, then start from there and after you start seeing more success and start recruiting the right kids. I knew we did our homework on kids but we were very fortunate to recruit good quality kids. I’ve gotten about 50 emails who not only said congratulations but have said, ‘I’ve met your kids and they are good quality people. That means a lot to people. Our team has been in the community doing things and out there working camps and impressing the coaches. That’s how you sell a program. The kids are the biggest selling points. If you have good quality kids, people will want to be part of that and want to be associated. They want to be part of a program with good quality kids.
We’ve had a lot of over-achievers in the early years. People are seeing that we are developing kids and have over-achievers, which has allowed us to get some blue-chippers. We had (former Missouri wrestlers) Kenny Burleson and J.P. Reese, who made the All-American round but was like third in the state in Missouri. Then you have Michael Chandler, who was just a runner-up in the state of Missouri. We’ve had tons of them; like Jeff Faust who is coaching at Oklahoma. We were the only Div. I program to recruit him and he ended up winning a Big 12 championship. He worked his tail off and helped us win big duals and tournaments. You can’t always get the No. 1 kids. It’s what you do with the kids who aren’t No. 1.

Q When you speak about vision, does that mean that you have to be a good salesman?
A You have to be a salesman. You have to sell everything in your program. Going out and speaking to the Rotary Clubs and getting other people and businesses involved, which helps money-wise. Then there is developing alumni and cultivating them. I was a teacher in the classroom. When you teach in high school, you have to convince and 15 and 16 year olds, who don’t want to be in that history class and convince them that this is fun and interesting and they want to learn. I have kids who want to be successful in wrestling, but stretching them to also get better. Stretching them out of their comfort zone is what I call it. You have to stretch people so that they want to achieve. Instead of saying, ‘I think I’m doing good,’ you need to tell them, ‘You can do better’ and point out their weaknesses.
A lot of people are afraid to work on their weaknesses because they avoid weaknesses. Sometimes a weakness can be in academics. I had one of my starters, who was a true freshman last year, struggle academically. He passed but it was hard work and being on him. I saw his dad at the Beast (of the East tournament) this year and said, ‘It’s awesome because he’s getting Bs and stuff and is so happy and relaxed. He’s not stressed.’ He came to me and said he can focus on wrestling and my classroom stuff is in order. If you can do all the little things right, that makes you a better wrestler. He sees the big picture now. He’s not stresses out at exam time.

Q You did not have many guys in your program when you took over. How did you overcome that challenge?
A I had 18 kids quit the first year. I would get home from practice and my wife would ask me about my day. I would say, ‘I had another kid quit.’ She asked me, ‘Are you sure you’re doing the right thing?’ I said yes because we had to raise the bar. Where it was set was not right. The team’s academic GPA was 2.1, socially things were not right. Commitment-wise, they were not working out in the spring and summer. I remember when I got the job in late April, I looked and there was no one here. I asked, ‘Where is everyone?’ The next summer, I was basically screaming at people, ‘You have to work out.’
Then my first recruiting class was Kenny Burleson and Jeremy Spates and J.P. Reese. Those guys came in and, whatever I said, they would do. If I told them to run through the wall, they would. Those were the kind of kids we needed to build the program. They then became the leaders and started dragging two to three guys with them and we started see more guys year-round and they started seeing success.
That fourth year was huge. I knew were going to be good but we had a break-out year and went 18-3. I couldn’t recruit anyone my first year because I got the job in April. The next year, we brought in like 25 new kids. After many of them redshirted my third year, we had a break-out year the next season.
Those guys made it happen. In their senior year, they were in the National Duals finals. They beat Oklahoma State. They accomplished a lot for not being big-time recruits. They attracted other kids like Woodley. From that it snow-balled.

Q Ben Askren’s brother, Max, is also ranked No. 1 at 197 pounds as a redshirt freshmen, making them the first non-twin brothers to be top ranked in over 20 years. Do the Askren brothers complete the Missouri snow man?
A They are a big part of it. They are big-time recruits who are attracting the same kind of level as them. If I had the answer to recruiting all the “Bens” I would be pretty good. We couldn’t get a kid like Ben at that time. If I got a kid to visit, I would work my rear off to get a recruit to visit and when we lost them, my assistant coaches would get upset. I would remind them that we are doing it right and eventually the families of those recruits would say, ‘You guys are on the rise, but it’s not where I want to be right now.” Eventually, we started to have a little bit of success and then Ben bought in being part of the “first.” The first national champ, the first national team title and trying to achieve all that stuff. You have to get those break-through recruits to make a difference.

Q How similar are the Askrens? How different are they?
A They are similar because of their passion for the sport. Every day, they are trying out new moves — they grab me and say, ‘Hey coach, check out this new move.” — They are students of the game. They want to learn by watching film and live the sport.
They are different in that Ben is more of the out-going personality. Max is a little more reserved and quiet; more of an introvert compared to Ben, which is not hard to do because almost everyone is like that compared to Ben.
They are similar in their styles where they are hard to score on and they have the funk to them. But they are different in that Max is more of a grinder. Max will grind people on top and he’s not much of a pinner, yet. I know he’s going to become one.

Q Ben appears to enjoy the spotlight, but it’s not always about Ben. Is he more of a leader than people think?
A Ben really wants the program to do well. He’s always dragging people in the summer and working with guys. He’s like a player-coach, almost. He really wants the team to do well. Everyone in our program is that way but he’s had some great success. He’s the most successful wrestler in the history of Missouri wrestling, but he hasn’t let that stop him. He continues to work at the same level.

Q Does his relaxed attitude under the spotlight help this team deal with the No. 1 spotlight?
A I think great thing about Ben is how relaxed and how much he enjoys the sport. When I walked into the locker room before the Central Michigan dual, they had the music on and were all dancing around, mostly Ben. He just keeps it so relaxed and people laughing, which I think is good. But once we have our meeting before the match, it’s all serious and they are ready to go. It’s good to have a personality like that. He makes people enjoy life as much as he does.

Q What was it about your background that has allowed you to succeed on this level?.
A I grew up in New York my first 14 years and then we moved to Florida for my health. I had pneumonia seven times and bronchitis all the time. I was in the hospital for over a month so they had me repeat first grade when I moved to upstate New York from Long Island. I was still very sickly between 6th, 7th and 8th grade. My parents were dragging me around to all these hospitals. In 8th grade, I was at one of the top pediatric hospitals.
They wanted to do some crazy things, but my dad, an old-time football coach, said, “This is crazy. These doctors are nuts.” My family was not wealthy. My dad was also a teacher and we were spending a lot of money on our doctor bills. Someone finally said if you move to a warmer climate, he might out-grow it in a warmer climate. I probably would never have gone into wrestling had we stayed in New York because all I loved was lacrosse.
Once we got to Florida, I had to repeat 8th grade again because I was so sick so much. I was older than my classmates, but I was tiny; like 85 pounds in my second eighth grade. But I loved sports and in my ninth grade year, I was going to go out for basketball, but my dad sat me down and said, “You are never going to be big enough.” My dad had always forced his football players to either wrestler or play basketball and usually pushed his aggressive kids to wrestle.
I had two freshmen football coaches. One was the head wrestling coach and the other was the head basketball coach. At that time, I was 115 pounds, a pretty good athlete, who knew the sport of football well as an option quarterback, a defensive back and loved football. It was my passion. So these coaches were fighting over me to play their sport in the winter.
It was at that time that my dad convinced me to wrestle and I fell in love with wrestling after my second year. As a sophomore, wrestling was my passion and every summer I spent with my cousins in Long Island. They were Div. II All-Americans. My cousin, Kevin, who taught me to wrestle, wrestled with Jack Spates in high school. Every break, I spent wrestling. I actually moved four hours away from my family and moved in with my grandmother to attend a different high school to get good coaching.
I was jumping into the sport so late that I had to catch up. Everything I was doing and learning came from asking coaches. I was picking people’s brains. I was like a sponge, wanting to learn. I was learning and developing good habits at that point. Even when I got college, I knew that I wanted to develop. Pat Milkovich was one of my coaches at Michigan State. He told me that when I was working camps in the summer, find the best high school coaches. They will teach you how to break things down and teach it. That’s how I became a student of the game.

Q Did wrestling allow you to become the man who you were?
A No, that was my family. My mom and dad were awesome people. They still are. Just look at the sacrifice that my family made. My older sister was going into her junior year of high school when we moved to Florida. No one wanted to move. We were living in upstate New York for eight years. We picked up and left because it was a sacrifice for me. Plus the bills that we piled up. It’s pretty amazing what they had to sacrifice. You will see my entire family, my two sisters and brother, my mom and dad and all their families will be at the Big 12s and NCAAs. They are my biggest fans. My dad and mom taught me about the importance of life; that there is more to live than just sports, even though sports was such a big part of our family. I still run into people who were coaches by my dad and see the impact that he made on their lives. I always said that if I can make an impact like he did on people. That’s the stuff that people don’t see. In our society today, if a coach is not winning, he is not doing anything good. But the kids will say he taught me a lot.
I came here to win championships, but I also wanted to make a difference in kid’s lives and help them live a better live afterwards.

Q You spent a year at Syracuse, but program that was on the Title IX chopping block. What did the Syracuse experience do to you. That could have been a major roadblock to you. Did you ever worry about getting another coaching job after that?
A After I took that job, I had a lot of friends in the sport say, “That’s the end of your career. Why did you do that?” I said to myself that I had been coaching in high school for two years and five years as an assistant at Cornell. I had been up for a lot of jobs and turned many of them down.
I felt like I could save the program; that maybe the community would raise the money. Syracuse was a big-time program in football and basketball. There was money there and felt that if we went in and did a good job that maybe the administration would change its mind. I realized about 4-5 weeks into it that there was just a rift between the administration and alumni. The alums did not want to give any money because they were mad at the administration and everyone was butting heads. I came in saying, “Let’s make this happen.” Everyone said they weren’t going to do this because of that. There were a lot of sleepless nights and I had a great group of kids. They were working hard and I almost felt guilty because I knew they weren’t going to have a senior year while they were here.
Then I was offered two interviews in the Midwest. I was actually offered the job at the other school and turned it down before I had the interview at Missouri because I just felt that Missouri had told me I was on their short list. I felt that if I could interview there, I would have a good chance at getting it.

Q When you did go to Missouri, you were joining a conference where you became the other coach Smith. Did you ever worry about being in the shadows, not just of an individual like Oklahoma State’s John Smith, but some great programs.
A We weren’t in their shadows. We were in the hole. Everyone had pointed out what Oklahoma State and Oklahoma and Iowa State had. I said, ‘Let’s not look at what they have. Let’s look at what we have here. We have a great institution academically. We are in the best conference in America for wrestling and now go sell that to kids. We are going to try and achieve great things. Every year, we started getting more and more and the administration started buying in. If you are worrying too much about what everyone else has, then you’re not worrying about yourself. We had to ask, ‘How can we get better?”